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Dr Ralfson Bwhahaha (tat2Ralfy)
Posts: 3610
Hello Peter and welcome from me too

I thank you for bringing your knowledge to our members, it's good that you are able to clear things up

My warmest regards
Ralfson (Dr)
We Are All Pioneers In Our Own Right.
The Infamous Coticule Crew
Pip Pip Old Bean
2011-10-16 02:05
Posts: 90
This is a really interesting thread with so much to comment on. I'll start with the brush I recently received. Based on what I have read from various reviews, I decided to purchase a Heinrich L. Thäter 4125/1 I shaving brush. That shaving brush can be found here: Heinrich L. Thäter 4125/1 I

The knot of badger hair in this brush looks fantastic. It is a well formed fan-shaped shaving brush; some would call this an "English-Style" shaving brush as fan-shaped shaving brushes were primarily produced by British firms like Simpson Shaving Brushes, Progress Shaving Brush (Vulfix) Ltd, R.A. Rooney & Sons Ltd, and G.B. Kent & Sons Plc. Likewise, some would call the bulb-shaped shaving brushes "European Style" shaving brushes as continental European-based firms like Vikim Diffusion - Societe a Responsabilite Limitee (Plisson), Shavemac Blos GmbH, and Heinrich L. Thäter GmbH are known for making bulb-shaped brushes. Ironically, some of the British firms make bulb-shaped shaving brushes, and some of the continental European firms make fan-shaped brushes now. The brush also comes with a nice, well written set of instructions - a rarity these days for nearly any products.

The badger hair used in this brush reminds me a lot of the badger hair used in the Vulfix-Simpson Two-Band Super Badger brushes by look and (dry) feel. By looking at my fan-shaped knot on my Thäter brush, I can see why Vulfix-Simpson use the bulb shape for their Two-Band brushes. The fan-shape of the knot on my brush allows the badger hairs to spread out quite a bit. On other shaving boards, people have compared the hair used in the Two-Band Thäter brushes favorably to the Two-Band hair used in the Rooney Heritage Line of brushes, which is to say that the hair is really soft. If you like really dense at the tips shaving brushes, then I would pass on the Thäter brushes altogether. My experience with Thäter shaving brushes tells me that they are moderately dense at the tips. This moderate density at the tips of these brushes most likely provides the excellent lather flow-through for which these brushes are famous. Many wetshavers have mentioned that they believe that Thäter brushes strike a good balance between lather flow-through (or efficiency) and brush density for face feel. Conversely, I have two Simpson "Chubby" size 2 brushes in Best Badger and Three-Band Super Badger. These brushes are lofted low and packed with badger hair to the point where I find them really difficult to use. Taking away specific personal preferences amongst people, there is probably something to say about balance and moderation in shaving brush density. A note about the knot size: my particular brush is advertised as having a 24mm wide knot diameter. My measurements tell me that the knot diameter is actually 26mm. My best guess is that the 24mm specification is actually the knot diameter at the base of the badger knot within the handle, not the normally specified knot diameter at the top of the handle for most brushes. Based on what I have read from other wetshavers, the rule of thumb for these brushes is to add 2mm to the stated knot diameter specifications to get a real sense for the knot size of the brush.

I am much less impressed with the handle of the brush. When I took the brush out of the package, I noticed brown dots and marks around the handle. I can't tell if these brown dots are comprised of dirt, or if the handle rod stock used by the handle manufacturer just isn't very pure and uniform in color. The bottom of the base of the handle has a relatively large, for a lack of a better description, bump that prevents the handle from laying flat on a surface. The brand logo on this brush is different compared to the older logo. The new logo looks futuristic and has fantastic symmetry throughout, if you take a close look. I actually like the older logo better because of the nice cursive script and the German language it contained. The new logo is placed better on the handles than the older logo was, with it being printed vertically on the brush instead of horizontally. I find that both the new and old logo are poorly printed or painted on the handles of the Thäter brushes I have owned. In particular, my Two-Band Thäter brush has part of the "ä" missing. I am not confident that the branding on my brush will last very long with use. To some people, the branding will not matter. However, the branding matters to me as that is part of what I am paying for with a brand of this caliber. The handle of this brush feels a little lighter than my Simpson brushes; however, it still feels solid to hold. The handle feels great in the hand as well, with it being the ergonomic octagonal handle. In total, I just feel that the knot of my Thäter Two-Band brush deserves a better handle to reside in.

I will be returning this particular brush to the vendor. I have had good experiences of returning unused items in the past with this vendor and expect this instance to be much the same. A brush that goes for this price from any vendor or manufacturer must have the fine details, such as fit and finish, taken care for me to keep the brush and keep on being a valued customer. I am not sure if I will buy another Thäter brush, though. I have the SRP Group-Buy Thäter brush (bulb-shaped) coming in the future, and I hope it will be an excellent brush. Depending on my experience with that brush, I may order a black-handled bulb-shaped Two-Band Thäter brush to compliment the SRP-Group buy brush. Looking at the fan-shaped knot of the rush I currently have, I believe that I would prefer the bulb-shaped styled brush. In summary, I was mostly unhappy with the fit and finish of the brush that I purchased. I also believe that I would prefer a bulb-shaped knot, as I feel that the brush knot would hold together better with a bulb shape while keeping decent lather flow-through. I would also fathom a guess that my experience is: 1) highly individual, and 2) an outlier.

I look forward to other reading other people's experiences with their Thäter brushes.
[Last edited by altshaver, 2011-10-16 05:57]
2011-10-16 02:16
Posts: 4
Dear Robin,
I have to add a few more things:
Because of your post I changed the description in two points:
I removed the word “finest”. Why, because there might be always a finer badger hair, and I agree those words are normally not the best to use. Especially when there might be something better. So for you: I removed it. And you are correct we should not have used this word.
Looking at the definitions in Straight Razor Place, the appearance is the base of the definition of a two band brush. So I added that two band silvertip are also based on the appearance, the style of the hair. To make it as clear as possible.
And, you will see the hair is stiffer.
One last thing: the brushes are genuine from Thater, we did not color any hair, we bought them as silvertip, and the pictures on our website are from the actual brushes, which we have in stock.
2011-10-16 02:42
Posts: 4
Hello Peter and welcome from me too

I thank you for bringing your knowledge to our members, it's good that you are able to clear things up

As for the price difference, maybe it's a case of some Vendorators making more money from their members?

My warmest regards
Ralfson (Dr)

Hello Dr. Ralfson,
Thanks so much for the welcome. Yesterday night a friend emailed me that there was a post that we carry “fake” silvertip brushes. So I had to do something.
In regards to vendors, I know SRD (Don and Lynn), and I am positive that they are not overcharging their customers. I have the feeling that the handles they use are more expensive, maybe the badger is even more high-end silvertip, or the "Fan" Shape is much more expensive.
But I agree to you that some vendors (not SRD) and Vendorators (I love that word) have the tendency to make some extra money, especially when they have something special nobody else has.
All the best, Peter
[Last edited by PeterRoyalShave, 2011-10-16 03:19]
2011-10-16 03:10
Bart Torfs (Bart)
From: Belgium
Posts: 5001
This thread and especially the reference to where Thäter brushes can be bought has raised some fuzz among our members.
Today, we have been in touch with Harald Shuldes, CEO of Heinrich L. Thäter GmbH. This is the company that produces the Thäther shaving brushes.

Herr Schuldes has asked us to post the following statement, on his behalf:

Concerning the way particular Thäther brushes were labeled on the website of Royal Shaving neither was an accordance from my side for that labeling nor has Thäter ever delivered any genuine "Two Band" "Finest Badger hair Silvertip" Shaving Brushes to Peter Cordes, resp. to his company Royal Shaving.
The labeling was not authorized by us.
The brushes were delivered as Pure Badger Shaving Brush "Silberspitze II".

Herr Schuldes further expressed the wish "that we can close this matter after you have published my statement", and the associates' team of wholeheartedly agrees with him.

This issue is closed. Feel free to continue the conversation on the original topic: a review of the official Thäter two-band brush with fan shaped knot, of which I've had the honor to test a prototype.

Best regards,
Then the light shone, trumpets sounded and I got to the other side, where men shave with smiles on their faces, razors pop hairs, and a continuous choir singing «~~Keen and Smooth~~» is heard everywhere. (Matt)
2011-10-20 00:20