Rules of conduct

Welcome at the Cafeteria! Here you can exchange ideas with Coticule users
from around the globe.
Please make sure you understand our forum rules!

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Robin
Posts:
iconjanivar123:
I do not think a site without noice would survive long, nor would i frequent it mutch

Why not? There is no law stating that research and documentation must be accompanied by a plethora of idle chit-chat. This site has everything you need to know about Coticules. It is my understanding that the initial aim for the forum was a) to allow for clarification of CSA articles, and b) to discuss new ideas and findings. Personally, I would find that perfectly sufficient. And I prefer 10 well thought through and written posts per month far more useful than 10 eternal September type posts per minute. I also liked Bart's idea of a holiday for the forum highly commendable.

Regards
Robin
2010-12-19 23:53
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Dr Ralfson Bwhahaha (tat2Ralfy)
Associate
Posts: 3610
And heres me thinking we were all just enjoying a relaxed chat :P

If you dislike noise, dont add to it, this thread is about a members "accidental" purchase
not about noise, that could be discussed in another thread

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
We Are All Pioneers In Our Own Right.
The Infamous Coticule Crew
Pip Pip Old Bean
2010-12-20 00:07
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Dr Ralfson Bwhahaha (tat2Ralfy)
Associate
Posts: 3610
iconBruno:
Btw, talking about the commercial angle: I would have expected shaveready.com to make a bigger impact, with their vendor driven focus. I thought they would get a lot of influx from that angle but they apear to be in a winter sleep.


Its sleepy over there, thats how we like it for now..lol
And there is no vendor driven focus as such, sure the site is operated by a vendor, but thats nothing new.

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
We Are All Pioneers In Our Own Right.
The Infamous Coticule Crew
Pip Pip Old Bean
2010-12-20 00:17
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Bart Torfs (Bart)
Associate
From: Belgium
Posts: 5001
Robin,

I agree with most of the points you made.

The website indeed started as a Coticule-related resource. And that should remain the focus.
That doesn't mean that I dislike an expansion in certain shaving relating directions, but I'm a strong advocate to stay on topic.
Not in a an insipid sense though: some sideways interaction can help to digest otherwise dry information. But when the scattering starts, I'm out.
I always thought of Coticule.be as a website that people visit, in search for information. And that information should flow smoothly and efficient, without the need for wading through pages of distractions, only to find blurred fragments of what one came looking for in the first place.
Providing information is the main function of this website, and there are countless people who profit from that. People who never post, or even subscribe for membership. I think that's perfectly fine.

On the other hand, a small community develops. Its members become friends and they develop other needs than the mere sharing of valuable information. Forum sections change into a sort of public chat-rooms, and we see chit-chatting to emerge all over the place.

I am aware that the former function can't live without the latter. There would be no forum on Coticule.be if there wasn't any information to share and to discuss. And there would not be this group of forum members, ready to warmly welcome new guys, offer their assistance and guidance, if the forum hadn't nourished the development of fellowship.

I don't know how we will succeed in keeping the balance between those 2 different aspects: fellowship and information.
Maybe some of the forum sections will need to be changed from "public forum" into a "help-desk" format, where only established experts answer the tickets. But how would we recruit and certify our help-desk crew? I really don't know.

As long as everyone understands that Coticule.be is not a cause on its own, we'll be fine for another while. Coticule.be doesn't aspire to grow for no other reason than to grow. Neither does Coticule.be aim to offer a general platform for social interaction. I personally like to live my social life more off-line than on-line, but for those who don't, there are plenty of social networking websites. Coticule.be has zero ambition in that field.
In my dreams, it is a place where people are working together to build the best informational resource about Coticules (and perhaps about some other technological aspects of the tools that carry Coticule-edges).

At present, some of us are working hard to evolve in the right direction (the translation team, the sysadmin team and last but not least: the research team). Yet the forum section is straying a bit off track momentarily. We'll get it right eventually.

Kind regards,
Bart.
Then the light shone, trumpets sounded and I got to the other side, where men shave with smiles on their faces, razors pop hairs, and a continuous choir singing «~~Keen and Smooth~~» is heard everywhere. (Matt)
2010-12-20 00:31
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Woodash
+1
Posts: 202
iconBart:
On the other hand, a small community develops. Its members become friends and they develop other needs than the mere sharing of valuable information. Forum sections change into a sort of public chat-rooms, and we see chit-chatting to emerge all over the place.

I am aware that the former function can't live without the latter. There would be no forum on Coticule.be if there wasn't any information to share and to discuss. And there would not be this group of forum members, ready to warmly welcome new guys, offer their assistance and guidance, if the forum hadn't nourished the development of fellowship.

I think this is actually quite important. Besides, it seems like a lot of the banter centers around the Miscellaneous section, so in that sense, maybe that area could be like a relief valve in a sense.
==================
....WHOOPS!....
Steve
2010-12-20 01:50
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janivar123
Posts: 80
Well this seems to have finally developed into its own thread, wich is good considering it was highjacking another thread

I think it depend what you call noice...
Giving gref or encouragement well its just too thempting to do somethimes
Yes i agree that the thread where this got started got sidetracked into being something entirely different.
It can be hard to allow comments without the chance of derailig, and yes when you just want the info thats not benfitial

A protected part on the different topicks would be well probably just about impossible to manage so maybe a link in the threads to a grief/chatter section(where needed)
2010-12-20 03:46
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Bruno
Posts: 40
There is another good reason for not using childish substitutes for perfectly good names: search fragmentation. I don't know the correct term, but no doubt Robin can say something intelligent about it.

Basically, if I do a search for coticule, then google or whichever engine will return results for 'coticule'. NOT for cotis. Same With Thuringer instead of Thurri, Filarmonica instead of Filli, etc ad nauseam.

By using the wrong terms, you are taking your content out of the search results for people searching for proper terms.
2010-12-20 19:06
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Robin
Posts:
True to a certain extent. Let's see...

  • coticule.be: meta name="keywords" content=""
  • straightrazorplace.com: meta name="keywords" content="straight razor,rasiermesser,rasoir coupe,wet shaving,aftershave,shaving brush,badger hair,shaving soap,shaving cream,shaving creme,strop,stropping,hone,honing,razor blade,dovo,thiers issard,boker,wade & butcher,puma,sheffield,solingen,damascus,dubl duck"
  • badgerandblade.com: meta name="keywords" content="shaving, cream, shaving cream, razors, community, wet shaving, mach 3, shaving brush, soap, men's health, aftershave, cologne"

I like the "mach 3" bit, they should have left it at that. Quite clever of you to misspell Böker. And it looks like the local dev team has some brainstorming to do.
  • coticule.be: meta name="description" content="A cozy forum about Coticule hones and straight razor shaving"
  • straightrazorplace.com: meta name="description" content="An international community of wet shaving enthusiasts interested in the acquisition, use and care of straight razors, shaving soaps, shaving creams, shaving brushes, strops, aftershaves, colognes, and fine living activities for refined individuals."
  • badgerandblade.com: meta name="description" content="This is a community dedicated to the art of wet shaving, and men's grooming."

Well, you know... Quite realistically, I think search engine optimisation is at the bottom of my list of worries when it comes to kindergarten jargon. It has more to do with what the first impression of a site is. Coticule.be does reasonably well in that respect. Threads are dominated by well formulated, thought through replies. Of course this has to do with the fact that the forum is smaller, so that you can get yourself heard even though you post little. But it also has to do with the fact that it almost free from people who post for recognition.

So tell me, Bruno, what kind of personality does it take to amass thousands of articles that mostly consist of "great work, keep it up" (no, women of negotiable affection do not count), or "we all hate you, because I wanted this little Duckie"?

And what sort of impression do you think this type of article leaves on the casual visitor? Is it likely to attract scientifically minded individuals? Or is not much more likely to attract the peers of these people, in other words more low-IQ-high-posting-rate people? Does the world really need more posts with subjects like "New to the STR8", "HAD PEOPLE LET'S resolve this challenge?", or "Barber's notch????"? Seriously?

Or is this just another case of better putting your own house in order first?

Regards,
Robin
2010-12-20 20:12
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BlacknTan
From: United States
Posts: 176
Perhaps I should just "read only..."

I could be dragging down the IQ rating of this forum by posting.
Better a diamond with a flaw than a polished pebble...
2010-12-20 22:28
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Dr Ralfson Bwhahaha (tat2Ralfy)
Associate
Posts: 3610
Wash your mouth out Sir William!

And stand proud, as we what talks proper should!

Hahahaha

Regards and Best wishes
Your friend
Ralfson (Dr)
We Are All Pioneers In Our Own Right.
The Infamous Coticule Crew
Pip Pip Old Bean
2010-12-20 22:50
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Bruno
Posts: 40
iconBeBerlin:
So tell me, Bruno, what kind of personality does it take to amass thousands of articles that mostly consist of "great work, keep it up" (no, women of negotiable affection do not count), or "we all hate you, because I wanted this little Duckie"?


None at all :)

Any personality will do, as long as it attracts a user base one way or another.
As soon as you get a large bunch of people together, you get that behavior. It doesn't matter which forum either. Ultimately, people are people. Get a large enough group of them together, and statistically they're all the same, causing the same problems and doing roughly the same things.

If coticule.be ever gathers a couple of thousand members, you'll get the exact same people problems that occurr at B&B or SRP.

It's like soccer supporters. Which team they root for doesn't really matter. They all behave in a similar fashion, and they all think that they are really different (better) than the supporters of the other team.
2010-12-20 23:20
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Bart Torfs (Bart)
Associate
From: Belgium
Posts: 5001
I'm goin to invite you all to watch an animated film by Dieter Dresselaers, a very talented pall of mine. It may appear of topic, but please, bear with me.

Preface:
In Belgium almost every village has 2 or more marching bands, usually connected to a particular religion or political entity. "Sussen" is Flemish slang for Catholics, and "Geuzen" means socialist (in the European sense of that word).

Let's first watch the video. It's short and it's fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkzButIlPsg

As said, every village in Belgium has a few of these bands, usually with over 100 members, and often a separate youth department.
Some of them are very good, with a formilised music education for the members, serious rehersals and they rank high in international brass band competitions.
But not all of them are equally serious. Some marching bands are just an alibi for the members to hang out together, and they are more occupied with drinking beer than with playing their instruments. I've know a marching band that fired the conductor, because he was too musically ambitious, and objected against members being drunk during rehearsal.

If Coticule.be was a marching band, I'd like us to be one of the more serious ones. Sure, we like hanging out after the rehearsals. The guys who joined the Coticule weekend last September can testify that. But it would be nice to have members that genuinly like to play music, and know how to discern between time to be noisy and time to play the intrument.

Personally, I don't think the right atmosphere should be inforced with formal rules. We've always managed to find the right balance. Some topics demand focus, while others allow more lattitude. I think most people can make that distinction. But we also see how easily people can abandon making it.

Kind regards,
Bart.
Then the light shone, trumpets sounded and I got to the other side, where men shave with smiles on their faces, razors pop hairs, and a continuous choir singing «~~Keen and Smooth~~» is heard everywhere. (Matt)
2010-12-21 00:41
Avatar
Bruno
Posts: 40
iconBart:
Personally, I don't think the right atmosphere should be inforced with formal rules. We've always managed to find the right balance. Some topics demand focus, while others allow more lattitude. I think most people can make that distinction. But we also see how easily people can abandon making it.


Only if you stay small can you get away without formal rules or at least guidelines.
Remember that SRP was pretty informal and self correcting too until it had about 2000 members. That is when the conversation forum started blowing up regularly so we needed to put some rules in place. The BST forum was another subsection that was pretty much self controlling and without formal rules until people started using it as a storefront and began hyping their junk.
And then we got a couple of people who insisted on not playing by the unspoken rules so they had to be banned. And then we had to ban people without being able to publicly say why (although since coticule.be is based in Belgium and not in lawsuit happy US, this should be less of an issue)...

And so on and so forth.
As long as coticule.be (or any forum really) stays small, there is indeed no need for formal rules. If it grows to 2000 members, that will no longer be true.
2010-12-21 08:08
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Matt
Associate
From: Poland
Posts: 1047
Ordnung muß sein, huh, Robin? :lol:

iconBeBerlin:
Easy. Do what the German forums do, and actively moderate threads. One thing they do well is to merge threads. This results in threads with 500 and more pages at times, but at least it keeps the discussion focused. Their moderators use colour coding to mark their comments as moderators (ie not active participants in a discussion). So, you see a lot more moderation, and public commenting on unwanted behaviour. Which, in the interest of seriousness, should include the omission of cutesy names for tools. Call it "Operation Thurri my ass" if you like, as long as this childishness stops.


Thread merging - this is a very good idea. As long as site's structure is reflected in its URL, even in 500 posts long thread you can precisely pinpoint your search with google's "site:" operator. You can also use it in Google's advanced search.

What I feel doubtful about is moderating posts for other than "proper" terms. I, too, am guilty of sometimes typing coti instead of coticule, although seeing "dulicot" makes me sigh inside, especially that it shows complete lack of understanding the name itself. However, I don't regard it as childishness but simply slang, which always develops within specialized group of people that have certain interest. No way to avoid it, it happens everywhere, be it biologists, IT specialists, surgeons, journalists, miners - any group. Usually they are simply abbreviated forms, which are easier to type, write, remember or say. Whether you like it or not, Robin - people do such things, and you won't make them stop it.












Or maybe you will...? :D



If someone thinks it's too far, let me, or the staff know.

regards,
Matt
"Very interesting indeed :) I did something similar with cheese a while ago" - Dr Ralfson
2010-12-21 12:57
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BlacknTan
From: United States
Posts: 176
I'm astounded that anyone on God's Green Earth would even consider, in the remotest possible terms, a lawsuit for being banned from an internet forum! It's not the real world, and I'm hopeful that everyone that partakes of those forums has a life other than the persona they portray in the cyber-world.
This is a great resource, I have not arrived at learning my coticule, but I've made good progress, and perhaps I never would learn it without the copious volumes assembled here.
We do develop friendships on these forums... Like minded folks that we've never met that we think we could be friends with. Over years, this can develop into true friendships.
Unfortunately, I believe it's all too true that these places can become overly large, and become unwieldy for their creators. Moderators are added.. Some with the maturity to handle the job... Many without. Some folks have a hidden, and in some cases not so hidden agenda. When money and business coincide with hobbies and creativity, the results can be predictably disasterous. Some moderators are taken with their new found power over the masses that appear to adore them. Nothing new here either... They seek the power and attention that they do not possess in their personal lives, in the netherworld.
This site is different. It's a learning resource. I try not to treat it as a chatroom, although I sometimes do enjoy a bit of banter.
The other sites are great for banter, if one can agree with points that are obviously wrong by the resident "experts," whom must never be questioned under threat of immediate banishment, and generally "fly under the radar" of the ruling class. They're really exist as the current day feifdoms... Ruled by overlords that allow we serfs to exist and play at our own peril.

I've been around a long time... Society make rules. Some are good for us all, some are designed to make people behave like a flock of sheep. Some folks need to have their lives ruled by others, in the form of government, or an internet bulletin board facist... It's all the same, just a question of scale.

I enjoy my freedoms, and the power to make decisions in my own life. I hold those rights dear, and will not cede them to any entity, no matter how much power they believe they hold over me.
I sincerely hope that others feel the same...

And BTW, I don't wear my seatbelt either...
[Last edited by BlacknTan, 2010-12-22 01:50]
Better a diamond with a flaw than a polished pebble...
2010-12-21 13:03