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Dr Ralfson Bwhahaha (tat2Ralfy)
Associate
Posts: 3610
icondanjared:
Who is claiming the other one? (I love the texture on it!)


Actually they both belong I believe to Sir Bart, I have been teasing him about that little BBW since I first held it in my hands, almost a year ago, I figure with tenacious attrition I might one day own my one true love :love: ..lol

Quick update:
thread started on wsw.com: http://www.wetshavingworld.com/forums/showthread.php?567-BBW-a-study-about-it-s-aptness-for-razor-sharpening

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
We Are All Pioneers In Our Own Right.
The Infamous Coticule Crew
Pip Pip Old Bean
2011-02-02 23:01
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Robin
Posts:
Cute. You even c&p'ed the typo in the subject line... :scared:
2011-02-02 23:07
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Dr Ralfson Bwhahaha (tat2Ralfy)
Associate
Posts: 3610
Oh yes...lol thank you Robin, I best go change that :thumbup:

Err hold on, what Typo?
We Are All Pioneers In Our Own Right.
The Infamous Coticule Crew
Pip Pip Old Bean
2011-02-02 23:11
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Bart Torfs (Bart)
Associate
From: Belgium
Posts: 5001
Both hones are property of Ardennes Coticule, on loan for the duration of the experiment.

I have been considering to buy the separate BBW as a birthday present for a good friend of mine, but he has been pushing to get it so hard, that he spoiled the surprise. Hence I shall think of something else.:lol:

Thank you Robin, for pointing out the typo in the thread title. I have corrected it.

Best regards,
Bart.
Then the light shone, trumpets sounded and I got to the other side, where men shave with smiles on their faces, razors pop hairs, and a continuous choir singing «~~Keen and Smooth~~» is heard everywhere. (Matt)
2011-02-02 23:22
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dnullify
Posts: 63
iconJens:
That is a very fine, thorough report!

I actually think you will have a very hard time to find a better hone for that price.
After all, you can buy a huge slab for under €50!



Just out of curiosity, where can you find a huge slab for under 50Eu? :confused:

sorry if i missed it in the report, but were there dimensions for the hones?
2011-02-02 23:24
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Bart Torfs (Bart)
Associate
From: Belgium
Posts: 5001
BBW: 40X150
CotBBW: 40X175
Then the light shone, trumpets sounded and I got to the other side, where men shave with smiles on their faces, razors pop hairs, and a continuous choir singing «~~Keen and Smooth~~» is heard everywhere. (Matt)
2011-02-02 23:28
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Dr Ralfson Bwhahaha (tat2Ralfy)
Associate
Posts: 3610
iconBart:
I have been considering to buy the separate BBW as a birthday present for a good friend of mine, but he has been pushing to get it so hard, that he spoiled the surprise. Hence I shall think of something else.:lol:


:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Also I have removed the hyphen

Best regards, and I know when to back off...(Feb 11th btw ;) )
Ralfson (Dr)
We Are All Pioneers In Our Own Right.
The Infamous Coticule Crew
Pip Pip Old Bean
2011-02-02 23:29
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danjared
From: United States
Posts: 1000
icontat2Ralfy:
iconBart:
I have been considering to buy the separate BBW as a birthday present for a good friend of mine, but he has been pushing to get it so hard, that he spoiled the surprise. Hence I shall think of something else.:lol:


:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Also I have removed the hyphen

Best regards, and I know when to back off...(Feb 11th btw ;) )
Ralfson (Dr)


Ralfy: Ah, a good month to be born in. I would know. ;)
2011-02-02 23:33
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Nick Fanzo (Disburden)
Posts: 335
It seems that the BBW edge feels more crispy than say a coticule edge? I haven't test shaved with this yet but it seems that way when I am preforming hair tests like arm shaving tests, which is what I usually use when I hone.
2011-02-03 04:22
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Chris Calvé (wdwrx)
From: Canada
Posts: 703
Of course, I had to give this a go right away.:D Im glad I needed a shave tonight.
I've finished and shaved previously with my BBW that came to me from Jared, and would be hard pressed to tell the difference from a nice coti edge. I hadn't tried the edge trailing strokes, but still found the edge more than adaquete.
This time around I tried the edge trailing strokes at the end of each dilution. I came off the hone with a HHT-2, a tad less than the best I can do with some of my other coticules and a nice hht 4 off the strops. The shave was pretty nice, it reminded me of the edges i get from my Le Dressante eu Blue.
I thought I noticed a similarity to the sensations of honing on the hybrid side of my Les Lutneuses bout in the smoothness and feed-back.
I took some microphoto's and I'll post them in the Bevel Tip thread.
2011-02-03 04:51
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DG7
From: United States
Posts: 61
I'll report back later after a couple of days in a row with the BBW & Unicot, but for me at least, I don't think I can really tell a difference between a blade off a Coticule and BBW, at least at this point. I must say, though, it felt a little weird finishing on the BBW using the stropping stroke, instead of the regular edge first stroke.
2011-02-03 05:35
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Jens
Posts: 78
icondnullify:
iconJens:
That is a very fine, thorough report!

I actually think you will have a very hard time to find a better hone for that price.
After all, you can buy a huge slab for under €50!



Just out of curiosity, where can you find a huge slab for under 50Eu? :confused:

sorry if i missed it in the report, but were there dimensions for the hones?

Ardennes:
http://uk.ardennes-coticule.com/index.asp?id=395
Type: BBW
Size: 200 x 50 mm
Price: 45.00 €
That is a big stone IMO, actually far bigger then needed

I have a 150x50, runs €32
Buy the ticket - take the ride
2011-02-03 10:39
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MrAsd
Posts: 1
Greetings,
I didn't get a chance to thank Bart the first time he published the dilucot and unicot methods, so now I would like to thank everybody for the efforts spent on this study and for the copious "tricks" discussed on coticule.be (from which I learned a lot). :thumbup:


Now, I'm eager to test the BBW side of my La Veinette :w00t:

Andrea
2011-02-03 10:47
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Bart Torfs (Bart)
Associate
From: Belgium
Posts: 5001
When I was doing the preparatory research for the BBW-study, I used several BBWs for establishing the sharpening procedure of the experiments. I did not use the samples from the study for that, as I didn't want to be optimizing procedures exclusively for these specific samples.

Of the BWWs I did use, one was mine that I bought about 3 years ago, one was the last known of the Veine Lorraine (a.k.a Salmon Rouge) out of Ardennes' display cabinet, and 4 others were samples on loan from Ardennes, coming from 4 different BBW-layers. One of those 4 came from the Regné mine, the other 3 from the Ol'Preu quarry.

I don't remember if I actually tested on the blue side of a combo Coticule.
It was quickly decided to opt for a Unicot type of procedure for this study, for reasons explained in the text. We wanted to test the hones instead of the people. Would we have used some sort of "Dilublue", user skills would have been a huge contributing factor. But that does not mean I haven't played with that approach myself, with good results I might add.

As far as the edge trailing strokes to finish are concerned, I decided upon those for 2 reasons:
1. since we were to finish on the BBWs with a very thin slurry, there was the danger of making that slurry too rich, with prompt tip deterioration as retribution. I ran some tests, and discovered that edge trailing strokes allowed for a somewhat greater variance in the concept "thin slurry".
2. it gave the best overall keenness throughout the BBWs I used for the preparatory research. In retrospect, it seems that those who worked well with edge leading strokes on water, worked less well with edge leading strokes on thin slurry. But none of them minded about edge trailing strokes on thin slurry.


Concerning the suggested crispiness of the BBW edges, that is not what our test results revealed. If we look at the diagrams for skin condition, we could say that both BBW's edges were by a majority of test persons considered smoother than the Coticule's edge, if only marginally. For me, this was one of the surprises of this experiment. I already knew from my preparatory research that the BBW edges were going to be difficult to discern from the Coticule edge, but still I expected that the Coticule would have ruled when it came to smoothness. I have some regret that we didn't try the edge trailing strokes on the Coticule as well, maybe it would have made a difference on this particular specimen? There is so much we couldn't examine, not in the least so many other Coticules and BBWs out there. All in all, the differences were extremely small, more based on slight impressions than on very loud and clear distinctions. But it is striking that those impressions, submited by different people, all point in the same direction with a statistical significance.

For me, the major conclusion of this study is that it's time to put all premeditations concerning BBWs aside. The logic of "expensive and hard to come by must be by definition better than cheap and readily available" has once again been proven wrong. A Coticule has the advantage of its creamy color, which makes it easy to see what's going on at the slurry stage. Coticules are on average also considerably faster than a BBW. But when it comes to being as brilliant razor finishers as Coticules, it am going to take BBWs much more seriously than I have in the past.

Finally, it has been brought to my attention that on StraightRazorPlace, this study has been met with great dismissal. Of the eleven people on the team that produced this study, 5 are banned on that forum, so this reaction doesn't come as a surprise. I hope we can have an open discussion about the report over here, without too many personaI issues smudging the conversation. If you get upset about the behavior on SRP, please don't bring that here.

For the record: I have never earned a single penny with my Coticule (and BBW) hobby. When I visit Ardennes, Maurice sometimes pays for my lunch. Accepting anything more, I would consider unethical. If I buy a hone, I insist on paying the same price as everyone else. It is the only way I am prepared to host this website and its forum. I am grateful for the opportunity to have this hobby and share it with some many fine people. That is a reward money can't buy. In fact, it is a reward I'm not prepared to sell out for some Earthly assets. Call me selfish.

Kind regards,
Bart.
Then the light shone, trumpets sounded and I got to the other side, where men shave with smiles on their faces, razors pop hairs, and a continuous choir singing «~~Keen and Smooth~~» is heard everywhere. (Matt)
2011-02-03 13:39
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vgeorge
+1
Posts: 273
iconBart:

For the record: I have never earned a single penny with my Coticule (and BBW) hobby. When I visit Ardennes, Maurice sometimes pays for my lunch. Accepting anything more, I would consider unethical. If I buy a hone, I insist on paying the same price as everyone else. It is the only way I am prepared to host this website and its forum. I am grateful for the opportunity to have this hobby and share it with some many fine people. That is a reward money can't buy. In fact, it is a reward I'm not prepared to sell out for some Earthly assets. Call me selfish.


This we know for sure, and we are most deeply, deeply appreciative. :love: :love:

We should also not pay any attention to anybody else who would not bring a positive and relatively unbiased attitude.

That said, we should be mindful that the studies do have a not-quite-intended exclusionary bend. The studies are carried out by people predetermined to have a bit fanaticism about 'da stone.' Once you know your child has the most beautiful face, then turn your attention to its vertebrae, guess what you are likely to find? :confused: Just something to be mindful about in research designs.
George
------
Proud owner of Franz Kline Coticule from Ardennes via Bart
Hoping for Edge, Working on Bevel. © 2010
2011-02-03 14:03