Rules of conduct

Welcome at the Cafeteria! Here you can exchange ideas with Coticule users
from around the globe.
Please make sure you understand our forum rules!

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Alex P (Dovofan)
From: Romania
Posts: 48
Well, since I am also new to the game, I don`t have anything that is 'extra' in my cabinet... I will however participate in the auctions. Looking forward to it, it should be fun!

Best regards and happy shaving,
Alex
2010-11-06 07:54
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Paul
Advisor
From: United States
Posts: 1388
I have been thinking about this a lot, but I just decided it's time to share with the group.

One day, I was having a conversation with my dad about a similar situation. Someone we knew who was extremely generous and didn't ever as for anything was in need, but he refused any assistance (yes I know this isn't identical, but still). The point was made in that the guy who always gives, but doesn't allow others to reciprocate robs others of the opportunity to enjoy the same benefits of giving that he enjoys all the time.

I say all that to say, if there is a need for money to be raised, and others would prefer to cut a check, I think it should be graciously accepted instead of refused. Everyone knows that money needs to be raised, and it seems a bit disrespectful to dictate the method. No one solicited a simple cash donation, but we should be allowed to make one if that's what we want to do.

I have a hard time getting on board with this the way it's playing out, and I doubt there's any question of my willingness to help in most any way.

Kind regards,

Paul
Paul
"Focus on the journey, not the destination. Joy is found not in finishing an activity but in doing it" - Greg Anderson
my blog- and it works again :p
2010-11-06 15:47
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BlueDun
Insider
From: Switzerland
Posts: 333
Paul, wise words that make me think ...

Cheers
BlueDun
2010-11-06 21:29
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Bart Torfs (Bart)
Associate
From: Belgium
Posts: 5001
OK. I'm officially pissed off now.

Since you guys insist on democracy, the least I can do is reveal the careful considerations that were made before deciding a format for this fund-raiser, among some other thoughts.

iconrichmondesi:
The point was made in that the guy who always gives, but doesn't allow others to reciprocate robs others of the opportunity to enjoy the same benefits of giving that he enjoys all the time.

I don't think you'll easily find a website that mainly deals about shaving related topics, where the members are more invited to share in any imaginable way. Firstly, we call upon cooperation to think along and help out with each other's research projects. In fact, we have a whole structure set up for just that. Secondly, the general atmosphere on the forum is one that promotes the members to help out each other. Many members do not only help another with advice, but also with exchanging gear and practical expertise. So don't come complaining that (I quote) "you are robbed of the opportunity to enjoy the benefit of giving."

iconrichmondesi:

Everyone knows that money needs to be raised, and it seems a bit disrespectful to dictate the method. No one solicited a simple cash donation, but we should be allowed to make one if that's what we want to do.

No you should not. Spoken out of experience of 20 years raising funds to support a local youth group in my home town, that gathers 200 young people on 2 separate indoor locations weekly + an annual summer camp that lasts a month in total, here's something I learned: As soon as you start accepting money, there will always be people thinking that they've paid for something. You never know what it is, till the day they start kicking ass about it. That's why I only want indirect fund raising. We specifically asked for items the owner no longer has any use for. The guys that will eventually pay money will receive what they paid for. It's a fair deal. There is always the possibility of disputes on a forum. The associates of Coticule.be need to be able to deal with any possible situation, without the additional pressure that some of the people involved have invested money in the website. That's why apart from the associates, who actually own this place, no one should be funding Coticule.be in a direct manner.

Furthermore, Coticule.be has it in its very nature to favor "the creative solution" over the instant solution. If we need funds, let's work for them. A lot of the items to be auctioned are objects made (or refurbished) by one of our members. I think one of the things that bonds the members of Coticule.be together, is that they seem to prefer the merits of hard and earnest work over the instant results that can be obtained from spending easy money. It felt only natural to run this fund-raiser in the true spirit of the website.

And to close with a very personal note: there are a zillion real charities that really can use money to actually improve people's lives. I personally don't feel the cause of Coticule.be should be tapping into that kind of direct fund raising. But, as said, that is a very personal opinion.

What pisses me off is that we ask for help, and that half this thread is turned into a discussion that boils down to whether the associates of Coticule.be are allowed to choose the format of this fund-raiser or not. (For full disclosure: yes, it was my idea, but it was discussed and accepted in the associates section.) I find that not very helpful, and I'm starting to regret this whole fund-raising idea.

Regards,
Bart.
Then the light shone, trumpets sounded and I got to the other side, where men shave with smiles on their faces, razors pop hairs, and a continuous choir singing «~~Keen and Smooth~~» is heard everywhere. (Matt)
2010-11-06 22:34
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danjared
From: United States
Posts: 1000
I have a couple of (unstamped) Wapis that were meant for a project, but I won't be able to continue that project as I no longer have access to a large metal shear. I'm assuming my depot would be Ray. Ray, please send me your address so I can send you the razors. Let me know if you prefer them prehoned or not.
2010-11-06 22:45
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Paul
Advisor
From: United States
Posts: 1388
iconBart:
OK. I'm officially pissed off now.


Sorry to have upset you

iconBart:
Since you guys insist on democracy,


I don't want a democracy, but I have no interest in acquiring much gear at present, especially second hand gear that people "don't have any use for". Yet, I would like to contribute to the cause (I'd support the server costs and many other things given the opportunity), and I don't feel like unloading anything at present.

iconBart:
I don't think you'll easily find a website that mainly deals about shaving related topics, where the members are more invited to share in any imaginable way. Firstly, we call upon cooperation to think along and help out with each other's research projects. In fact, we have a whole structure set up for just that. Secondly, the general atmosphere on the forum is one that promotes the members to help out each other. Many members do not only help another with advice, but also with exchanging gear and practical expertise. So don't come complaining that (I quote) "you are robbed of the opportunity to enjoy the benefit of giving."


It's not a complaint, but an observation. You guys do not run this site free of charge, but you will not allow support to be given by those who frequent and really enjoy the site. I can appreciate the fact that you don't want to be seen as profiting on this, but can't you appreciate the fact that we may not want to be "freeloading" all the time?

iconBart:
No you should not. Spoken out of experience of 20 years raising funds to support a local youth group in my home town, that gathers 200 young people on 2 separate indoor locations weekly + an annual summer camp that lasts a month in total, here's something I learned: As soon as you start accepting money, there will always be people thinking that they've paid for something. You never know what it is, till the day they start kicking ass about it. That's why I only want indirect fund raising. We specifically asked for items the owner no longer has any use for. The guys that will eventually pay money will receive what they paid for. It's a fair deal. There is always the possibility of disputes on a forum. The associates of Coticule.be need to be able to deal with any possible situation, without the additional pressure that some of the people involved have invested money in the website. That's why apart from the associates, who actually own this place, no one should be funding Coticule.be in a direct manner.


If you see a difference in people giving valuable goods instead of money, we'll just have to disagree. Furthermore, if you think that people will feel less sense of ownership because they donated goods instead of money, we'll disagree on that as well. Human nature seems to dictate that any time someone does something for another (or a cause), they develop a sense of ownership. If they are always given something for nothing, they develop a sense of entitlement. Neither is good, but I don't think we will avoid any such feelings because I give a 100€ razor instead of 100€ cash. I could be totally wrong.

The associates of coticule.be will have no problem handling any disputes on the forum irrespective of if members helped to fund something. If that's not the case, then I submit that you may need to make some changes in the Associate group. I do not believe that to be true, though.

iconBart:
And to close with a very personal note: there are a zillion real charities that really can use money to actually improve people's lives. I personally don't feel the cause of Coticule.be should be tapping into that kind of direct fund raising. But, as said, that is a very personal opinion.


I'll not really get into this, but to say that I give a very large percentage of my income to charitable donations. How someone prefers to spend their money seems to be a very personal decision as well...

iconBart:
What pisses me off is that we ask for help, and that half this thread is turned into a discussion that boils down to whether the associates of Coticule.be are allowed to choose the format of this fund-raiser or not. (For full disclosure: yes, it was my idea, but it was discussed and accepted in the associates section.) I find that not very helpful, and I'm starting to regret this whole fund-raising idea.


Again, sorry to have upset you, but I'm no freeloader. You referenced Associates having the "right to choose" the way funds are raised. Of course you have the right, but I have the right to say I disagree, right? You're really that upset to have been questioned because we want more ways to help? You have chosen to render those not interested in the process you've determined best unable to support the effort.

I never would have guessed that questioning this would illicit such a strong response, but I know there is a lot of pride in the not-for-profit nature of the site.

Again, I apologize, and I'll not voice any further opinions on this matter.


Kind regards,

Paul
Paul
"Focus on the journey, not the destination. Joy is found not in finishing an activity but in doing it" - Greg Anderson
my blog- and it works again :p
2010-11-07 01:27
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rayman
Advisor
From: United States
Posts: 499
I am donating one of my travel strops and boxes for the fundraiser. I have been working on the lid and finally finished it this evening. Here is a photo of the finished lid.





I think this will make a nice addition to anyones collection.

Ray
2010-11-07 02:46
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Dr Ralfson Bwhahaha (tat2Ralfy)
Associate
Posts: 3610
Beautiful Ray, and a wonderful addition to any collection as you say my friend :thumbup:

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
We Are All Pioneers In Our Own Right.
The Infamous Coticule Crew
Pip Pip Old Bean
2010-11-07 02:56
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danjared
From: United States
Posts: 1000
Truly beautiful, Ray.
2010-11-07 03:02
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Woodash
+1
Posts: 202
^^^
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
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....WHOOPS!....
Steve
2010-11-07 04:10
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tim stevenson (pedalpowersailing)
From: United Kingdom
Posts: 81
Ralfy - hopefully i can find my box of gear and contribute. Will send by end of next week

ps may not have time to hone as i am full time building an extension

tim
tim stevenson
2010-11-07 16:29
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Chris Calvé (wdwrx)
From: Canada
Posts: 703
That is nice, Ray... I didn't think I'd be bidding on any auction stuff, but that is enough to change my mind. Nice work.
2010-11-07 17:01
Avatar
Dr Ralfson Bwhahaha (tat2Ralfy)
Associate
Posts: 3610
iconpedalpowersailing:
Ralfy - hopefully i can find my box of gear and contribute. Will send by end of next week

ps may not have time to hone as i am full time building an extension

tim


Thanks Tim, hope the building work goes well mate, and its nice to see you again :thumbup:

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
We Are All Pioneers In Our Own Right.
The Infamous Coticule Crew
Pip Pip Old Bean
2010-11-07 18:28
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DENNIS KELLY (DJKELLY)
+1
From: United States
Posts: 774
iconrayman:
I am donating one of my travel strops and boxes for the fundraiser. I have been working on the lid and finally finished it this evening. Here is a photo of the finished lid.





I think this will make a nice addition to anyones collection.

Ray


That better not be the one you're making for me, you prick. No wonder it takes so long! It's been three years and not a word from you. (All untrue, nice work, pal, Denny)
STAMP OUT QUICKSAND
2010-11-07 20:05
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DENNIS KELLY (DJKELLY)
+1
From: United States
Posts: 774
I probably just missed it somehow, but where are we supposed to send the money, er, I mean the gear, here in the states? Denny
STAMP OUT QUICKSAND
2010-11-07 20:08