Rules of conduct

Welcome at the Cafeteria! Here you can exchange ideas with Coticule users
from around the globe.
Please make sure you understand our forum rules!

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RicTic
From: United Kingdom
Posts: 240
icondanjared:
Actually, I think Che might have had less facial hair than Castro, so you're probably him.


Agreed ^

And because he once said to his captors..."I'm Che Guevara and I'm worth more to you alive than dead!"
Kek man camov te jib bolli-mengreskoenaes,
Man camov te jib weshenjugalogonaes.
2010-11-10 00:40
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RicTic
From: United Kingdom
Posts: 240
Unfortunately, that wasn't long before they shot him. :/
Kek man camov te jib bolli-mengreskoenaes,
Man camov te jib weshenjugalogonaes.
2010-11-10 00:42
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Paul
Advisor
From: United States
Posts: 1388
iconBart:


A review of a shaving forum can be as useful as a review of a shaving soap. Perhaps even more so.

Kind regards,
Bart.


:O

Reasonable people can disagree and all that...
Paul
"Focus on the journey, not the destination. Joy is found not in finishing an activity but in doing it" - Greg Anderson
my blog- and it works again :p
2010-11-10 01:10
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danjared
From: United States
Posts: 1000
Bart, I saw this elsewhere and found it relevant (or at least amusing):
2010-11-10 01:37
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Bart Torfs (Bart)
Associate
From: Belgium
Posts: 5001
iconrichmondesi:

Reasonable people can disagree and all that...

Indeed, one can reason with reasonable people.
One can even reason about unreasonable behavior somewhere on an Internet forum.
As I said, I understand Tok's original sentiment all too well and given the circumstances, I even find his post balanced.
iconTok:
I know, not all of the threads/posts look that way, and mostly, the information is valuable, but still, if I hadn´t found this and other sites, I think that I´d have spent even more money on hones and stuff, than I did already.


Let's get on topic then:

iconquestion:
Looking to get a single stone for refreshing my straight razor strictly, can I get away with one stone and what would you recommend?


someone says "barber hone", someone else says "Naniwa 12K". Both times good advice.
Then Malacoda mentions the C-word.:)
Next thing, the thread is moved, I presume from "newbie" section to "honing".
I think it's a coincidence, but I'm often called naive. :rolleyes:
Next post, punctual like clock work when the C-word falls, Glen Mercurio:
iconthe_C-police_speaks:
That is just a myth my friend, you can do the exact same thing on just about any stone that you can shave comfortably off of....and almost every one that you listed

In fact the "One Coticule" honing is becoming more of a myth now too, since most Coticule users are buying two, one to set bevels and one to finish with..

The trick is most people don't like burning up expensive naturals to accomplish it, or wasting time on one synthetic...
(my underlining)
Let's analyze. He says Malacoda's claim is a myth, for the reason that it could be done on other stones as well. While it is not entirely true, neither does such a fact falsifies Malacoda's recommendation for a Coticule.
Than "One Coticule" honing "is becoming a myth" as well, because some people buy more than one. That's the equivalent of saying that I don't fit in one coat because I have more than one. Next he plants the assumption that you need one Coticule to set bevels (that obviously can't be suitable for finishing) and then a finisher (obviously too slow to do bevel work). Weird, I've formally and systematically tested a wide variety of Coticules, and have not found anything to support such a claim. In fact, I've successfully performed the "One Coticule" method (later baptized Unicot) on all of them. Rest assured that Glen is aware of that. Hence his innuendo serves only to defuse Malacoda's endorsement for Coticules. This is no longer about answering the original guy's questions but about some sort of pathetic Coticule vendetta that started 2 years ago.
Next fallacy, "people don't like burning up expensive naturals to accomplish it". It's utter bullocks. Coticules require one slurry to be produced, per razor that is honed. For personal use, they will outlast the owner, even if he has a collection of razors (He still has only one beard to shave). But to an inexperienced audience, that statement seeds 2 thoughts at once: 1. Coticules are expensive and 2. Coticules will wear prematurely if you use them with slurry. Both statements are false.

Then the thread lingers on, the usual "flood the noob with everything he can possibly buy" text is recycled once more, a magical Coticule passes by that only works miraculously on Sheffield steel, and then Tok makes his big mistake... He refers to Coticule.be. :O And he mentions that he occasionally uses a "1000 grit synthetic for the very hard evil mistreated ebay-razors" (my underlining).

Rataliation is prompt:
iconthe_C-police:
So what your saying, is with a 1k synthetic and a Coticule, then one Coticule is enough?????

Hmmmmm yeah I think that qualifies as two stones....which is exactly what we said above... whether you use two Coticules or a synthetic and a Coticule that would still be 1+1 = 2 hence that statement that One Coticule honing is becoming more of a myth...

It's always good to repeat a fallacy, that makes it stick better. Tok said "evil mistreated Ebay razors". He would be better off with a 600 grit, but what if you already owned a 1K? (as turned out later in the thread)
Note that the tone of the C-police becomes increasingly derogatory. on a tangent, below that post is an illustration why Coticule.be will never have a thanks button. I hate cheering audience when some poor guy is finished off by a trained bully.

And finally, the guy with the bloody nose, who had the nerve to mention Coticule.be, is shown the right way, namely the 3 subsections on SRP that deal with hones and honing.
iconthe_C-police:
You might just learn something about Hones and Honing razors
.(my bold) That is very clear language. And another one that will think twice before making another public recommendation for Coticules on SRP. Or a reference to Coticule.be for that matter. Mission accomplished.

On a side note. According to Google Dashboard, there are 20.837 references to Coticule.be on Badger and Blade. There used to be about the same amount on SRP. Now there are 2.453 left, and most of them are gone, but Google hasn't figured that out yet. I never had a link to here in my signature line on B&B. But I had such a link on my SRP signature-line. I didn't remove it. Someone else did. But putting "banned" under my moniker was too difficult...


Now the sad part of it all is that Coticules are truly great hones. No one ever said that there are no other great hones as well. Not me, before or after I was banned on SRP, not Tok or Malacoda in the discussed thread. But for reasons that have strictly to do with people's EGO, these whetstones are now being denied their true values on the website that is here called the Genesis of straight razor shaving. Isn't that the book that states the world is flat? And didn't the church not had people burned at the stake for stating the opposite?

Kind regards,
Bart.
Then the light shone, trumpets sounded and I got to the other side, where men shave with smiles on their faces, razors pop hairs, and a continuous choir singing «~~Keen and Smooth~~» is heard everywhere. (Matt)
2010-11-10 03:07
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Bart Torfs (Bart)
Associate
From: Belgium
Posts: 5001
icondanjared:
Bart, I saw this elsewhere and found it relevant (or at least amusing):


:D :D :D

I love that!

mustaches rule!

And besides, Coticule edges are way too dull to shave a mustache...

:lol: :lol:

Bart.
Then the light shone, trumpets sounded and I got to the other side, where men shave with smiles on their faces, razors pop hairs, and a continuous choir singing «~~Keen and Smooth~~» is heard everywhere. (Matt)
2010-11-10 03:09
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rattlerviper
From: United States
Posts: 43
Well I read through the thread on SRP :thumbdown: Does anyone else think it's odd that a vendor/moderator who's signature says something about being respectful seemed to be anything but?

The behavior in that thread is a clear example of why I asked my account there be deleted long ago. After reading that thread I thought about starting a account there again just to say coticule every time someone asked what stone they should get, I won't lower myself to that though. I'll continue to spend a bit of time on B&B, but the majority of my time is spent here. My post count here is rapidly approaching what 3 years of B&B membership posts. There is a reason for that, and a reason that this is the forum I choose to read daily even if unable to post due to using a android phone.

Tok I am sorry they acted that way towards you when you were just trying to answer a question with helpful honest advice.
2010-11-10 03:42
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Paul
Advisor
From: United States
Posts: 1388
Bart,

You know that I didn't say they were the genesis of straight razor shaving. I said of wetshaving fora, but that's admittedly possibly inaccurate as it relates to the entire internet. Notice the capitalization of "genesis" is yours. The word as I used it simply means "a coming into being." I'll pass on the religious discussion B) ... It is the original English speaking wetshaving forum, as it was started only after a year long search for information on the internet. That's what I meant...

Cheers, all... enjoy
[Last edited by richmondesi, 2010-11-10 04:32]
Paul
"Focus on the journey, not the destination. Joy is found not in finishing an activity but in doing it" - Greg Anderson
my blog- and it works again :p
2010-11-10 04:03
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Smythe
Advisor
From: United States
Posts: 990
Yes it’s amusing reading some of the posts over there… that thread in particular.

ZIB for example knows Coticules very well (after all, he is a Coticule vendor), but his post would suggest he doesn’t “understand” Coticules. He also seems a bit confused… you need “the right Coticule” (there is that idiotic statement again)… and he’s not sure if he “was” or “still is” a Coticule vendor (could be an attempt to "conform"). Yet he qualifies himself by saying he handles “hundreds of Coticules”… (now why does that sound familiar?… like another popular honer who qualifies himself by saying he honed more razors than anyone else).

Glen: I put him in the same bag as "what’s his name"... the dude who thinks only 6 out of 1000 Coticules are any good… yes, that fellow. You get into a discussion with him and he “nit picks” the discussion, and often pointing out the obvious (as if you didn’t notice the obvious)… all in an effort to make himself look “smart”… but of course that is the point... he only appears smart if he makes someone else look silly… like a slick “3rd world” politician he is very good at it… wadaminite he’s now a vendor?... how cool is that?... now that explains a lot:lol: .
2010-11-10 04:07
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Woodash
+1
Posts: 202
icontat2Ralfy:
I will reserve my judgement on SRP for I do not believe this is the place to get into all that.

Correct (IMHO...).
==================
....WHOOPS!....
Steve
2010-11-10 08:52
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Robin
Posts:
My, my, what an interesting thread. Two things: 1. I think personal issues with any member of another forum should be settled there; 2. Bashing SRP is too easy to be fun.

ad 1. Thankfully, both big forums have installed badges to make a member's vendor status transparent. Whether anyone is willing to accept advice from somebody with a vested interest is up to that person. And there is a balance to be struck. Someone making money with a certain knowledge or skill in a tightly knit, small community must be reasonably good at what he's doing. At least in theory. I practice, evaluating the edge of a razor (to keep the example simple) is an exercise in personal preference. Bart has honed many razors for me, and there is at least one that he likes a lot, and I do not. Does that mean Bart is bad at honing? No. Does that mean that even the best honer is infallible? No. What it means is, quite simply, that there are many contributing factors to a successful shave, and the razor itself isn't even the most important in my opinion.

However, being infallible is crucial where there is predatory competition. SRP makes little pretence of its support of a small group of individuals who are said to be exceedingly good at certain aspects of straight razor shaving. B&B gives its pushers and enablers much more leeway by comparison. While I do not approve of SRP's handling of marketeers, it is relatively free of them. B&B, on the other hand, employs far more devious practices to keep their moderators' cronies happy. I cordially invite anyone to peruse this thread in all its glory.

ad 2. SRP is very big. If you don't like certain aspects, leave. It is too big to be changed, and if you think its drawbacks (of which there are some) outweigh its uses (of which there are many), leave.

It really is that simple. But bashing certain of its members here does not change anything over there while spoiling the mood here. I don't think that's such a great idea.

Regards,
Robin
2010-11-10 09:55
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Tok
+1
Posts: 118
First of all, I want to say thank you for your sympathies.:)

iconBeBerlin:
(…)
It really is that simple. But bashing certain of its members here does not change anything over there while spoiling the mood here. I don't think that's such a great idea.

Regards,
Robin


Word.

I´m astonished, of how big this thread became. I surely didn´t intend do make a connection to the above mentioned thread. That one developed pearallel to this one. I don´t want to bash certain persons, that was absolutely not my intention. I wont answer in that thread anyway.

I was like "well, I don´t care if I get banned, and when a newbie asks for hones, I am the Jehova screaming guy that tells him/(her) about coticules. But after that, I don´t know… I guess, it´s just not worth all the grief. I feel a bit bad for the beginers, who will spend a fortune for synthetics plus finisher(In another thread, a newbie asked the same question and the first answer he got was a norton set from amazon for 180 bucks…). And some people simply prefer natural hones, as I do. If someone told me to get synthetics first, I´d have searched as long as I´ve found a natural method(Wait; that´s exactly how it went…).

My problem with SRP is, that it is so helpful. As you said, Robin, there is so much valuable information. And I like finding and collecting such information. On the other hand; looking at threads that are remotely connected to hones and honing might spoil my mood.

Nothing but respectful regards,
Tok

EDIT: Darn, I just looked at the very thread on SRP and I like the direction it moves, at the moment… We´ll see, how it gets in a day.

Off Topic: As most of you have read the thread already, I have two questions: Do you think half an hour for unicot is too long? I didn´t measure time when honing, so i guessed. Thinking back, I´m not sure if i wouldn´t manage to get a razor shaveready in ten minutes. At the moment, I´m trying dilucot on every razor, thus, I´m not sure.
Second: I am really interested in the "uniescher, unithurry, uninearly-every-other-natural-finisher" question.
[Last edited by Tok, 2010-11-10 14:11]
2010-11-10 13:43
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DG7
From: United States
Posts: 61
Nothing really new to add here, but I just wanted to express my appreciation for this site and all of the good information found here, whether it relates to coticules or not. I much prefer coming over here for discussions on all things straight razor related, rather than other sites (including the one being discussed here), even though there is also good information to find elsewhere.

For the record, I haven't honed thousands of razors, I haven't been using a straight for 6 months, and I've read lots of info on lots of different sites about honing. For me, I'm doing this all for my own personal enjoyment. I have no pecuniary interest in any of this. I have razors that have been honed by honemeisters, and I don't care what hones they used. I know what my face feels like after shaving with one of these razors, and I can get pretty much the same results using a single coticule. I don't always get the same results after Dilucot (I'm still learning), but I always do if I jump to Unicot right after that. I've done this on multiple razors, both Sheffields and Soligens. I've even used Unicot after sub-par performance with synthetic hones with great success.

I don't know what hones and methods are best for you, but I really don't care, as long as you're happy with your results. I respect the knowledge and skill of those who have been doing this for a long time, and will continue to take advantage of them in the future. Using coticules is just one way of doing things, and they seem to work pretty good for a beginner like me, so it can be done.

I probably wouldn't be so into all of this so much if it weren't for this site, so once again, thanks to all here for their insightful, humorous, thought provoking, and informative comments. :thumbup:
2010-11-10 16:46
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Dr Ralfson Bwhahaha (tat2Ralfy)
Associate
Posts: 3610
iconTok:
Do you think half an hour for unicot is too long? I didn´t measure time when honing, so i guessed. Thinking back, I´m not sure if i wouldn´t manage to get a razor shaveready in ten minutes. At the moment, I´m trying dilucot on every razor, thus, I´m not sure.
Second: I am really interested in the "uniescher, unithurry, uninearly-every-other-natural-finisher" question.


Tok, my sincere support and a big man hug goes to you, for the way you were "cyberbullied" after this I wont comment further on the subject, because it has all been said, and I would have to use words like "Fascist" which even I with my "fuck You" Tattoo dont feel entirely comfortable using here. other than that I would say that only people who are afraid tend to attack others....thats that.

ok, for me we have around 10 minutes for Unicot, and 15 for Dilucot, plus a bit extra if the Dilucot is a tad off at the HHT.

I have both Thuringian, and Charnley Forest Stones, both highly rated naturals, and at some stage I have pledged to try a Unicot/Dilucot version of a full hone with both of them, only problem is I prefer the Coticule shaves.

Best Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
We Are All Pioneers In Our Own Right.
The Infamous Coticule Crew
Pip Pip Old Bean
2010-11-10 17:46
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tim stevenson (pedalpowersailing)
From: United Kingdom
Posts: 81
For me I do not give a monkeys. I have one coticule now as it is all I require to keep my gear in tip top shape. I can use it (99% because of Barts advice, 1 % my own efforts. Advice is something I listen too whether I take it is an entirely different thing, but life is too short to get drawn in.

Long live the coticule
tim stevenson
2010-11-10 21:02