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Woodash
+1
Posts: 202
iconwdwrx:
hahah
Well, I'm surely a contender for the Special Olympics! Sham suckered me in good. (He's got verbatim postings on both B&B and SRP.) But then i can be a bit of an argumentative prick.... It's my Don Quixote complex, I guess.:D
You cannot win at his game. Best not to even try, or if you must, be an argumentative SARCASTIC prick...;)
==================
....WHOOPS!....
Steve
2010-11-12 17:57
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Bart Torfs (Bart)
Associate
From: Belgium
Posts: 5001
iconwdwrx:
hahah
Well, I'm surely a contender for the Special Olympics! Sham suckered me in good. (He's got verbatim postings on both B&B and SRP.) But then i can be a bit of an argumentative prick.... It's my Don Quixote complex, I guess.:D

Proceed with caution, Chris. Before you know it you'll be banned for raising slurry. :D

By the way, a couple of months ago, I wondered whether I am a complete idiot, and the entire dilution phase could not be replaced by the same amount of strokes on clear water. I tried, ended up doing about the double amount of laps on water, and got nowhere. I did a second attempt on my Les Latneuses that's a notably fast cutter on water. After setting a bevel on thin slurry and much more work than I normally do during a dilution phase, I eventually managed to arrive at the a finished edge, worth shaving with.
Even though there was the slight relieve of not being a fool, rest assured that I would have posted about this test, if I felt there was any benefit in skipping the dilution. But of course, do run your own experimenting. You never know when you're on to something. :thumbup:

Kind regards,
Bart.
Then the light shone, trumpets sounded and I got to the other side, where men shave with smiles on their faces, razors pop hairs, and a continuous choir singing «~~Keen and Smooth~~» is heard everywhere. (Matt)
2010-11-12 18:11
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Chris Calvé (wdwrx)
From: Canada
Posts: 703
iconWoodash:
You cannot win at his game. Best not to even try, or if you must, be an argumentative SARCASTIC prick...;)


No kidding, especially when he changes the rules mid-stream.:thumbdown:

Unfortunalty, my transcription skills don't convey sarcasam well, or humour for that matter... I fear that I seem more pedantic than I really am.:-/
I usually try to get by on my boyish charm.:D
2010-11-12 18:16
Avatar
Robin
Posts:
Why even bother? Take an attention whore, give him no attention, and what remains...

You know? These people weren't so massively successful if it weren't for people like yourselves. An idiot will always drag you down to his level, then beat you by virtue of superior experience. Don't even bother.

From a purely pragma-linguistic perspective, their MO is rather primitive. Like any snake oil dealer, they need three things: jargon, a crowd of followers, and snake oil.

Jargon: A hone is a hone. A Coticule is a Coticule. It is not a Coti (and its plural certainly isn't "Coti's"). Same for Thurri's (known as Thuringian hones elsewhere), JNat's and all the other cutesy names for pieces of rock. Using these terms is important, though, because it suggests a intimate knowledge of the subject matter. Just like improper use of English grammar and punctuation will get you closer to the idols. Well, the first victim of high post counts is typically grammer!!!!!!!

Followers: Followers are important. Like pawns in a game of chess, they can be effectively used to sidetrack threads, or to create massive approval where, in reality, there is just a wild guess. Notice how one long time member, who is usually quite meticulous when it comes to describing tools and techniques, mentions something called "dilucot". Does that ring a bell? Give the amount of behind-the-schemes PM and phone based scheming for which these forums are notorious, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if that member had read been asked to read the infamous dulicot thread here, and been asked for support in order to retaliate. But I digress.

Snake oil: "Experiment" is a word widely misused, typically by people without an academic background. Don't get me wrong: You don't need a university degree to enjoy shaving, honing, or writing in forums. But an experiment involving cut-throat razors requires more than a wild guess, some time in your basement with your chest of hones, and a ton of exclamation marks and grammatical errors spewed forth across several large forums. It requires, amongst others, that the results cannot be falsified. If they are, your hypothesis is wrong. Experiments also must be repeatable. If they are not, your so called experiment is meaningless.

Do you really think arguing with this type of person is actually worth the bother?



Regards,
Robin
[Last edited by BeBerlin, 2010-11-12 18:46]
2010-11-12 18:36
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Dr Ralfson Bwhahaha (tat2Ralfy)
Associate
Posts: 3610
iconBeBerlin:
Oh, lovely, a Zombie thread. Anyone got a wooden stake?


Thats Vampires Robin, Zombie are dispatched by decapitation or a bullet in the brain....lol

My only real gripe is all of the bogus myths these people put around, and that people who take them at face value are misled.
that and the fact I cant stand Bullies

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
We Are All Pioneers In Our Own Right.
The Infamous Coticule Crew
Pip Pip Old Bean
2010-11-12 18:49
Avatar
danjared
From: United States
Posts: 1000
To make matters worse, some people think that owning an expensive microscope instantly validates all the "results" of their "experiments".

Granted, there are several without any scientific background or talent that do not make any pretenses about their tinkering. But I have no doubts about my respect for such humble people.
2010-11-12 18:54
Avatar
Chris Calvé (wdwrx)
From: Canada
Posts: 703
iconBart:

Proceed with caution, Chris. Before you know it you'll be banned for raising slurry. :D
At this point, I'd consider it a badge of honour. I had that in mind when i took him up on his own turf.

iconBart:

By the way, a couple of months ago, I wondered whether I am a complete idiot, and the entire dilution phase could not be replaced by the same amount of strokes on clear water. I tried, ended up doing about the double amount of laps on water, and got nowhere. I did a second attempt on my Les Latneuses that's a notably fast cutter on water. After setting a bevel on thin slurry and much more work than I normally do during a dilution phase, I eventually managed to arrive at the a finished edge, worth shaving with.
Even though there was the slight relieve of not being a fool, rest assured that I would have posted about this test, if I felt there was any benefit in skipping the dilution. But of course, do run your own experimenting. You never know when you're on to something. :thumbup:

Ah ha! But you see, i had complete faith in exactly that. Without having ever bothered to even try setting a bevel with a coti, I was pretty damn sure it wasn't going to work... in a reasonable timeframe. I did give it the ol' college try though; after 800+ pressured half strokes, it still ain't there.

iconBeBerlin:
Do you really think arguing with this type of person is actually worth the bother?


Not really. It's kinda fun, in the way beating your head against the wall is... It feels great when you finally stop:D
Seriously, though, I've been off work all week, and I'm bored out of my head. :thumbdown:
I guess in a way I'm really just trying to sharpen my ability to explain myself and come to a better understanding of the process. I'm in that grey area between becoming good at this little hobby, and being able to convey it effectively to others.
Waaayyyy back when I was in college, the best way I had to truly grasp a subject was to try to teach it to someone else, and to argue it. Academic type argument, as opposed regular arguing like what me and my wife do.
2010-11-12 19:21
Avatar
RicTic
From: United Kingdom
Posts: 240
iconwdwrx:

...as opposed regular arguing like what me and my wife do.


Now that truly is a waste of time. ;)

On the anti coticule lobbyists. I can't help but get the distinct impression that the negative debates about coticules are driven on a personal level. I have no real time experience of the history on this matter other than what I've read around different forums, but that's the overwhelming vibe I get.
The persistent issues just leave me nonplussed and bemused, especially when they come from grown men.
If anything, the grip on the two coticules I own (both of which work beautifully btw), becomes tighter with every twisted post I read.
I find it incredible that people have been banned for expressing their opinions about these stones. :confused:
Kek man camov te jib bolli-mengreskoenaes,
Man camov te jib weshenjugalogonaes.
2010-11-12 19:39
Avatar
Dr Ralfson Bwhahaha (tat2Ralfy)
Associate
Posts: 3610
iconRicTic:
iconwdwrx:

...as opposed regular arguing like what me and my wife do.


Now that truly is a waste of time. ;)


And very destructive at times.

As far as almost everything else this thread is about goes...

I have just watched a program about manipulation and marketing, pseudo celebrity status sells. etc.etc.

I have to say I am not at all surprised by how fucking stupid people are. the general public are as a rule such a gullible group of people it amazes me

I am just glad I am not one...lol

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
We Are All Pioneers In Our Own Right.
The Infamous Coticule Crew
Pip Pip Old Bean
2010-11-12 22:09
Avatar
Bart Torfs (Bart)
Associate
From: Belgium
Posts: 5001
iconRicTic:
On the anti coticule lobbyists. I can't help but get the distinct impression that the negative debates about coticules are driven on a personal level.


That I believe is correct. Sham has made an utter fool of himself, over here, on B&B, and on SRP so many times, that he behaves like a guy who drove his car against a tree, and now keeps banging into it over and over again in the hope to fell the tree. The sad part is that it won't undo the damage to his car, but that it does damage the tree.

It's hard to stand by and watch it happen.

Bart.
Then the light shone, trumpets sounded and I got to the other side, where men shave with smiles on their faces, razors pop hairs, and a continuous choir singing «~~Keen and Smooth~~» is heard everywhere. (Matt)
2010-11-12 22:10
Avatar
Dr Ralfson Bwhahaha (tat2Ralfy)
Associate
Posts: 3610
iconBart:
iconRicTic:
On the anti coticule lobbyists. I can't help but get the distinct impression that the negative debates about coticules are driven on a personal level.


That I believe is correct. Sham has made an utter fool of himself, over here, on B&B, and on SRP so many times, that he behaves like a guy who drove his car against a tree, and now keeps banging into it over and over again in the hope to fell the tree. The sad part is that it won't undo the damage to his car, but that it does damage the tree.

It's hard to stand by and watch it happen.

Bart.


You know Sham sent Gary his "salmon" Coticule I believe it was? anyway the idea was to let Gary see for himself how not every Coticule is suitable for setting a bevel.
As it happens gary still had it when he and I met up, so unbeknown to me, Gary dulled a Dovo's edge 5 times! over glass, and suggested I give it a go.
15 mins later it was shaving arm hair with ease, and 10 mins after a Dilucot edge passed the HHT, and all on a stone that was sent to prove it cant be done! hahaha

Gary told Sham about it, and guess what? Sham didnt believe him.
Oh well, I guess some people are so happy digging holes, that sometimes they forget to look up, until its too late to be able to climb out of it eh?

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
We Are All Pioneers In Our Own Right.
The Infamous Coticule Crew
Pip Pip Old Bean
2010-11-12 22:22
Avatar
RicTic
From: United Kingdom
Posts: 240
iconBart:


It's hard to stand by and watch it happen.

Bart.


I think most people have the savvy to understand that there's something not quite right going on.

There's an old saying Bart;

"Never stand in the way of a fool and his goal!"
Kek man camov te jib bolli-mengreskoenaes,
Man camov te jib weshenjugalogonaes.
2010-11-12 22:31
Avatar
Bart Torfs (Bart)
Associate
From: Belgium
Posts: 5001
iconRicTic:


"Never stand in the way of a fool and his goal!"


You are completely correct of course. I have to admit I'm only an apprentice when it comes to following those wise words. :blush:

Kind regards,
Bart.
Then the light shone, trumpets sounded and I got to the other side, where men shave with smiles on their faces, razors pop hairs, and a continuous choir singing «~~Keen and Smooth~~» is heard everywhere. (Matt)
2010-11-12 23:55
Avatar
RicTic
From: United Kingdom
Posts: 240
iconBart:
iconRicTic:


"Never stand in the way of a fool and his goal!"


You are completely correct of course. I have to admit I'm only an apprentice when it comes to following those wise words. :blush:

Kind regards,
Bart.


Tell me about it!
I almost broke my keyboard resisting a recent response that shortly followed Gary's post on SRP. :/
Kek man camov te jib bolli-mengreskoenaes,
Man camov te jib weshenjugalogonaes.
2010-11-13 00:06
Avatar
Chris Calvé (wdwrx)
From: Canada
Posts: 703
ha! I saw that response.... WTF?!?!?
Can you say "petty tyrant"?
Banned or not, I'm done with that site. ( I was getting that way as it was)
I think I'll just go around hitting that stupid thanks button every time i see the word "Coticule" used favourably, until I do get banned.
2010-11-13 01:07